It is disappointing to see the same old inaccuracies being perpetrated by Afrocentricts. The whole idea is based on wild supposition and misinformation. We do know however that she was of Macedonian ancestry and that intermarriage was practiced throughout the reign of the Ptolemies.
In Ptolemaic society Native Egyptians were forbidden from holding positions in public office, government and had limited rights. There were even separate law courts for Native Egyptians and Greco-Egyptians. Coptic Egyptians in particular can trace a direct lineage to the Ancients, linguisticly and culturally. Ignorant people want to turn every human who steps into Egypt into a Sub-Saharan African. I just let the whiners argue about a Macedonian being different from a Greek.
Who cares? Cleopatra was Greek from Macedon, with heritage to match. To know Greeks, is to know their history…. The Greek character having formed over millennia, can be summarized as being multi-layered and multifaceted. Most people would consider Greek peoples as being Mediterranean first and foremost, but there is more.
Greeks have always been international peoples since time immemorial. The Greek Character is multi-layered and multifaceted, drawing in embedded experiences from five different geographical locations. Greece in ancient times could be visualized spanning from the far West of [Iberia] Spain to as far East as [Colchis] Georgia. Oxford, really? Can you not just respect the authority here and commend him for all his hard work and thank him for sharing it? We really need to learn to give credit where credit is due and cease ridicule and reprimand on a whim.
He sees no significance of the white Hollywood industry stealing the greatness of people of color. Roller thinks there is no intended deception in transferring racial truth to gratify Whites.
Pro and con but what send to be the focal point is that all that had been discussed took place in the mother land of Africa which is the birth place of humanity. The first law of thermo dynamics is that the hotter can go to the colder but the colder can not go to the hotter. A philosopher whose name evades me, and I paraphrase, said that by reasoning of infinite regression all things return to its origin. Did they just magically appear within the last years to rule the earth and distort history?
If blacks were to assimilate into the world by reasoning of infinite regression all things would return to its origin state which was black. Because black and white does not beget white but black and white begets black.
What about this: Metro Golden Meyer presents an epic film displaying an historical accomplishment of struggles for freedom in the sixties by Dr.
Martin Luther King played by Tom Cruise. Does race matter or just the accomplishment? Do some research on other Pharos and find Ramesesit was pale skin and red hair.
Caucasians in fact were native to Northern Africa. Black Africans more comm on in central Africa. Only during a period lasting years did you see Black Nubian who overran Egypt, not the years some claim. Fact is there are no and have never been great black Empires in Africa as some like.
What you never had, some steel. Macedonians and Greeks , who cares? Is that what you idiots got out of this essay. The point was being made that cleopatra likely did not have black African blood. Nobody can say anything these days without people coming out of left field to cry about something, get real. The Afrocentrists want ancient Cleopatra to be black because they are identity thieves.
It appears they love stealing the identity of people using false information in the past and in the present. They do it with DNA all the time. They and others apparently love this lie. The person is stating that Cleopatra is mixed or mulatto but dismiss entirely the other peoples that pass genetic information. Identity thieves indeed. While I do not know the exact racial profile of Cleopatra no one does , to know how the Egyptians thought about their skin color, just look at their paintings.
The Egyptians identified as brown. In the same paintings, you can see them represent Nubians as black. In fact, they represent themselves in a variety of shades. This includes Nubians who were represented as black who also ruled Egypt for a time.
But it also includes many other people. And it includes the people that Egyptians thought of Egyptian, and they were represented as brown. If you want to know what the ancient Egyptians thought of their skin tone, just look at how ancient Egyptians represented themselves. That gives you your answer. Whenever we need to assign a skin colour to a person, it almost always is white by default.
For example, Jesus has been proved to be of Mediterranean descent and to have facial features and skin colour accordingly, and yet, he is always depicted as a Caucasian even to this day. These acts give viewers the feeling that the European standard of Caucasian beauty is still considered to be better than and a measuring stick for beauty across all cultures and comes off as xenophobic.
The European culture is already infamous for centuries of imperialism and acts of cruelty towards other cultures the imperialism was so far-reaching that most of the world still uses British grammar, with the exception of America. Racial discrimination is still a problem in this day and age. I have seen many non-Caucasians being bullied just because of the colour of their skin, but never a Caucasian. Even article claims there was blood tie to Greeks, now we know all people genetics in the world are mixed, there is no pure ethnicity now and before 10, year ago.
OK, the article is extensive discussion by using legends. But some articles have much effort to show particularly Cleopatra as a complete executive of Greek culture and institution; in general aggrandize the Greek civilization. Please in this age use genetic studies to talk about ethnicity. If you want to talk about civilization, as you say race should be irrelevant, of course and please refer to before Greeks which were utilised by.
Egypt is one of the advanced civilization in human history to teach many things all of us. After years of being told that your people are nothing and come from nothing it is so refeshing when credible African and African — American scholars, historians, social scientists, and anthropologists proved to us that we have a beautifully regal history. I believe I know the answer. That some of the darkest people on the earth, the Indo-Iranians, are who the designation originally applied to though now it is applied to languages.
Write a book or blog about that. No one wants to point out the blatant anti-blackness in this article? Stop whitewashing history, especially African history! Cleopatra was African. Since their origins.
Cleopatras father was ilyrian Albania so called today Macedonia is Albania Greece has nothing to do here.
Lol if u gonna talk at least take a really good look at history facts. Cleopatras sisters tomb was found and dna taken…they were definitely more African than Greek! However that is pretty irrelevant to the ancient Macedonia of Alexander or Ptolemy Soter. Whatever the Greeks thought at the time, they clearly considered themselves to be culturally Greek, and ethnically speaking would have been closer to Greek than to Ancient Egyptian or African, which is the subject of this article.
As for Black women looking for ancient role-models, may I suggest looking at the Queen of Sheba, or Hatshepsut or Nefertiti of the pre-Alexandrian Egyptian royal dynasties.
Names, Identity, History, Heritage, Legacy — These things are important to Greeks…worth keeping, worth preserving and worth protecting. Lest we forget — Macedon was Greek Kingdom. Macedonians, a Greek-speaking Hellenic-peoples. Today, most Macedonians live in or around the regional capital city of Thessaloniki and other cities and towns in Greek Macedonia, while many have spread across Greece and in the diaspora.
The indigenous Greek Macedonians are descendants of the Ancient and Byzantine Greek Macedonians [5][page needed] and they have a heritage and identity distinct from that of the Slav Macedonians, who now mainly inhabit the neighboring Republic of Macedonia. Utterly unsurprising to see so many dogmatic afrocentrists, i. Just say she was black what was difficult about that. One can easily see why she was so attractive to Julius Caesar and Mark Anthony if she was a beautiful fair skinned blond.
Alexander is said to have blond hair too and she was the decedent of one of his Generals who came and conquered all the way from Macedonia,a rival to Sparta and other Greek states. My how greatness had spread far and wide.
When has race NOT mattered???? The black girl in the video below has two black parents. She is not a rarity, not a minority in our diverse gene pool. Wishful thinking I guess…. As in, of actual Black African race. Afro-american revisionists nowadays and a lot of other revisionist groups go to great lenghts to project the blackness of a couple of figures.
One should notice that not all african black people can be properly be considered as donors into the afro-american heritage. For instance … has any nubian been deported to the USA as a slave back in the days of slave trade??? There was a great segregation between the egyptians be them whiter saharians or darker nubians and southern Niger-congo tribes. Greek immigration was massive the sea tribes to egipt after the golfen age of the pharaos … and this whitish population has nothing in common with anglo or scandinavian whiteness pale skin that doesnt tan and in fact mediterraneans are essentially identical now matter how tanned the individual is.
A pure blood ptolomaic and a southern egiptian would be the same collor if they lived their entire lives exposed to the sun like egiptians did. One thing for sure a black as in like african americans black Cleopatra would be mentioned in the anals of history … and not a single mention exists. Macedonians didn't apropriate themselves of the term macedonian more than the Hellas republic apropriated themselves of the term greek.
She can be seen however anyone needs her to be seen. After all no of us were there. Nothing has changed then and now people lie. What the H, Anon Oct. We live in world of universal Eurocentric dogma.
Eurocentrism more so based in reality? All history is subjective, embellished and revisionist to some degree. Especially that of certain long reigning, Euro invader groups, who have taken credit for the conception of ideas, inventions, and aspects of societal living from around the world, that had been in practice long before they caught on. Are we to believe the Roman coin depiction of a despised outsider or an Egyptian bust of a beloved Queen?
Whose perception was based more in reality? Also, your evident view of human superiority and inferiority past and present is what is disturbing. Civilizations that have been around longer will have a substantial track record. However, peoples from all over the globe have and continue to contribute to the shaping of modern day society, technology and thought. Not just one group or ethnicity. Sergio where do you get your information?
Do you own a ledger of ALL the African nations affected by continental and international slave trading? Why is it hard to grasp that neighboring countries with millennia of interaction are more likely to share deeply rooted ties with each other, in this case ancient Egypt, than all of Egyptian history with all of Grecco-Roman history?
An Egyptian Queen by default would be expected to be black or brown. Every once in awhile, inbreeding needs an injection of new DNA so subsequent children reach reproductive age. Whatever your natural skin tone is, under the same sun a darker person will still be darker. Just as there are differing shades and features across Europe as you mentioned not every European is the quintessential English or Scandinavian, as often portrayed , across Asia, across the Americas.
All of which developed in those specific regions before interactions with other established ethnicities from far away lands. The phenotype of ethnic groups is greatly related to adaptive mutation to their region of the world and more likely to occur there. However, modern day man originated in Africa and many of us have a small percentage neanderthal DNA. So, regardless of where we came from, there are only so many variations of the human phenotype that can develop.
Skin tones, eye and hair color, facial features, body types can naturally pop-up any place without outside influence. We are not merely defined by how we look, the hue of our skin, to whom and where we were born. As though it would taint their worth or make their achievements less important.
Her culture was just as much Egyptian as it was Macedonian or Greek. Of course it bloody well matters. I know. Anytime they say race does not matter? It does because that statement says they are lying and withholding the truth. Blacks history was stolen for over years due to the them spending Billions of dollars worldwide to keep the blacks identity a secret.
Why would you even doubt she is linked to an African bloodline being that Egypt is located in Africa? I think the fact that Caucasian-American producers cast white faces in foreign movies is a slap in everybody face. I think the reason this is so contested is because much of the history that we have been taught is false.
AFRICA was actually in a poor state when the Europeans embarked heavily in transition in the existing Arabic sahara slave trade into the Atlantic slave trade. So there is an abundance of neglected and buried history that has been denied as relative to the world history. Some are lighter and some are darker. The elite Egyptians tend to have more admixture with Europeans. My last caveat is lookup the recent discovery that early Europeans did not have white skin. Humans are a diverse species but race does not exist the way it has been and continues to be portrayed.
To say Cleopatra was a white skinned woman like Elizabeth Taylor who I love, I really feel is pushing a false idea and has a motive behind it. African-Americans are not an homogeneous group of people.
Most African-Americans have at least a little admixture to a significant admixture. African American phenotype run the gamut and includes 3. The genes most likely to produce offspring that can be categorized as any so called race are mullatos, mestizos, and zambos. But why does this matter? If she was black African then she may have been a role model for black women, but in order to be a role model do you have to be of the the same ethnicity?
Can the female population not derive inspiration from this woman whether she was Black African, Greek Macedonian or mixed ethnicity? And how does determining her true skin colour make her impact greater on a certain population?
Our shared humanity with Cleopatra should be our starting point for judging her level of impact. We can venture further to exclude her gender from our evaluations and choose to view only a human ruler who successfully led Egypt, overcame adversity and left a lasting impact on our modern world. She was descendant from an extremely inbred Macedonian dynasty and was the first person in her family to even speak Egyptian.
The only outside blood in her family was from her grandmother, who was also Macedonian. She was white, and probably blonde or read-headed. It would never happen…know why? Whitewashing is a longstanding psychological tool used to support white supremacy; protect the ignorance of the fragile white ego and hide the truth from the true spiritual and earthly Royalty of black people.
Know why? How dare race be an issue in representing a truth as long as whiteness is plastered all over it?! Gosh, these black people are just so petty for not wanting their entire plagiarised history to be correctly depicted so that credit for real power and accomplishment can lift them out of the lies that have been fed through the media for years. Black people urgh! Get a life and focus on the acting! Oh it matters…. Like magic…poof! The illusions are dissipating.
Ahhhh but what does it matter?! Viola Davis is a great actress…. What is so interesting about this controversy is there are many images of Julius Caesar and Marc Anthony at that time.
If Cleopatra was of European descent they would be many many images of her. The article is foolishness. And the picture depicted as the queen is suppose to be proof. As the picture of white Jesus is proof he is white. There are white ppl who live or came from Africa who do not have african blood in them. As far as ppl complaining about a white playing her in movie.
Will Smith played I am Legend who in the book is white. So is that fair? Fact is she is greek or has greek in her. And they did dna on king tut and his father and grandfather and findings say they all have European dna. Black people, which I consider myself to be by the way, are starved for role models. Were DeClerk and Botha Black?! Roller here provided an outline that we as Black people, starved for role models, to boost our self-esteem, could not see. Egypt was conquered by Alexander the Greek!
And then, he did not defeat Egypt, but Darius!!! Persia ruled Egypt at this time!! And then, Mr. You think they are going to let a Black woman rule!! And if she was such a great Black role model, such a prideful Black original Egyptian, what the hell was she doing sleeping and marrying and having children with Caesar and Marc Antony? Romanticizing will not improve our condition Black people, only critical analytical thinking!!
That is a term given to african americans due to loss of history and culture. It is made up! Cleopatra was a woman of color whether that be olive or midnight black. Whether that be from mixed, greek or whatever was floating around in that region. Modern day Egyptians do not consider themselves black because there is no such thing. If african americans knew their history they would not identify as black either, but how many choices are left when all attempts have been made to erase their identity.
There would be pure fucking outrage. It is important who she was in history, not who we want her to have been. They are not and never have been Greek. Cleopatra was black! And yes it is ok for one of the greatest women ruler of all time, was a black woman. Another transparent attempt to deny in greatness of person or historically personality to African ancestry. Just another attempt by white scholars doing what they have always done is to assign all the great civilizations to a European invention in an attempt to maintain the myth of white supremacy.
Cleopatra was a black woman! Swallow that pill. In a land dominated by the original dark skin man, you expect us to believe that every great Egyptian or biblical person that walk that land was white? You can barely stay in the Sun for an hour without burning up. Cleopatra was a Greek Macedonian pure and simple. Egyptian royalty only intermarried amongst themselves, so it is very unlikely for anyone outside the Royal family to have added to the Royal gene pool.
Secondly Roman writers give no indication that Cleopatra was African. She was Albanian. It was only Albania. They took so much credit from Albanian people. Alexander the great supposedly from Macedonia was albanian.
I have visited a church in Macedonia and I got informed from different sources that the church had an eagle Albanian symbol painted on the walls ,but after they took Albanians territory they Burnet it ,and repainted it to make it look Macedonian. This was just an excample of how mistreated Albanian history is.
Ah, the neverending discussion about race.. Makes you think if we humans can ever overcome our desire hate eachother. I will for sure get hate for this, people are going to assume my pigment and try to bash me for it. But whatever, live in your world of hate.
Just give your children room for their own thoughts. Original Ancient Egyptians were most likely originally African as in black African most written sources from those times with depictions back that fact up. Cleopatra was most likely of mixed ethnicity and according to America one drop rule can be therefore considered black in their eyes.
Keep that in mind. An absolute woman, an amazingly capable queen, seen as equal to men even back then! Whom ever wrote this article needs a refund of their historical education. Cleopatra was not Greek or close to it.
The timeline between the first Ptolemy and the last there was a drastic change in the empire. All the Kings who did rule areas married women whom were native to the area. Alexander himself had wives whom were of brown and black descent.
Quit trying to Europeanize History, give credit where its due. Look at a map! Meaning she woukd have some nice toasty skin! Representation and Whitewashing. White people and those born of Europe are to most represented in media. White people can turn anywhere and find a role model. Now as for Whitewashing, Jesus is another example. He was from Isreal. The same has happened to other figures of non-europeans and non-european descended.
You cannot rewrite history or you may as well be like old racist Hollywood. They were not white like a Celt, and they were not black like a Nubian. The Queen apparently loved her country and her people, so they loved her. It would explain her popularity, but that can also be explained by the simple fact that she was an amazing politician — She knew how to charm people.
Could she have been darker than a Greek? Maybe, maybe not. They called her the Egyptian, not the Nubian. Funerary masks of that time depict Greeks, not Nubian Egyptians. They had dark, curly hair and olive skin. Most likely, and this is based on cultural, historical evidence, written narrative, and the coins and more realistic statue of her head, she would have looked like the actress Marina Sirtis StarTrek circa with a really deep tan.
I saw something about Angelina Jolie being cast as Cleopatra, but it would only work if she had a bunch of makeup, a wig, a prosthetic nose and gained some weight if we want to be historically accurate.
Harriet Tubman. You want a strong black female role model? How about a woman who risked her life to enter the deep South over and over to save hundreds of lives? And she did it with a head injury that gave her narcolepsy- she fell asleep on a bench once and risked capture, torture, etc. She was a superhero, and definitely black. And, Cleopatra?
She was a politician. What a hero. Prejudice is universal, and knows no color, creed, religion or body type. First, many on this thread denied the possibility that Cleopatra was black. Of course, these are the same people who wanted to deny Barack Obama was black. This professor is a clown. I live in Columbus and pray I run into this joker one day to confront him on this idiocy. What is this trash. What if she was an egyptian.. Have you guys even try dna testing?
Does she even wrote it on her face with alphabet? As a historian, you should not be hedging to appease the gods of political correctness. Civilization is a manifestation of genetics. History shows us that race matters on a macro level. It is directly correlated to the continued transmission of the civilization by the founding race.
These regions were either invaded or otherwise occupied through the use of laborers, immigration, or in rare cases, by conquest by nonwhite nations of varying races. Kemp, Arthur. Now for all you one drop rule people, you tell me what is her ethnicity? Are you freaking kidding, racist or just plain thick?
Her family lived on Egypt for over years…yes Egypt in African where the first people lived. That makes no sense. Example both Halle Berry and Barrack Obama are half white yet still very much people of color and she had significantly less in her blood.
Why do black people want to claim the Ptolemaic dynasty was black? They invaded Egypt from Greece. Ancient Greeks had olive skin just like today.
Well, well.. What a fierce discussion. I as an cultural antrophologist of North-African descent have a few things to mention here. You all talk about white or black, Africa, Europe, Greece, etc. Classical Studies. Contact Us Phone. Fellows Hall View all contacts ». Timothy Hofmeister Professor. Debbie Riley Academic Administrative Assistant. Where We Go.
How We Learn. What's Happening Faculty. Read more. Summer scholar research projects completed in the classics department in Summer More From Denison. Denison Seminars.
Living at Denison. Some people are arguing that applying these dichotomous standards of whiteness and blackness to ancient Egypt is, in fact, unhelpful and anachronistic.
Obviously, this level of precision would hugely limit the dramatic range available to actors, and our art would suffer as a result. However, the whitewashing debate is serving an incredibly important purpose: it highlights the more general, problematic trends within film and television, many of which disadvantage non-white actors in several ways.
Our obsession with telling the same stories over and over again, as well as our infatuation with traditional period dramas, greatly reduces the number of parts available for BAME actors. Our enduring interest in Cleopatra, as opposed to myriad other African queens, is a product of this westernized way of thinking. While this remains the case, and production companies insist on maintaining this inadequate cinematic canon, the very least we can do is attempt to diversify the range of actors who are offered parts in these stories.
0コメント